-- you WG -- baseball podcast Matthew collar here with ML Carr -- He is the voice of the buffalo by -- I hate to be in the future in June will be the voice of the detained -- hot dogs I guess that makes us in somewhere and other experts. And we. Not really well we're gonna talk to Bob Harkins from NBC sports here in just -- second. And we're gonna talk till about -- any -- talked about Barry Bonds steroids making their way back into our baseball lives when we thought we had finally to in the now. Let's start off with -- Pat your impressions of many what did you think of him when he was -- his prime. When Manning was as prime he was -- sure. First ballot hall of Famer and he used the 2004 groceries at BP he Ortiz. From work to the best hitters in the game. Many leads up to his contract with the Red Sox you wanna say Iraq didn't live up to his original deal with taxes. I completely agree but many did what many set out to do in Boston -- when a World Series. Make the gains entertaining in his home runs and win in the process. Boston need other pieces because one guy hitting home runs doesn't solve the problem but he. Was up big solution. For them breaking their World Series jinx and then winning it twice so to me. After winning two World Series in being a World Series MVP here's a hall of Famer -- you go to. Him punching out the traveling secretary. And not wanting to play and getting traded to. LA and seemingly finding his swing all of a sudden conveniently. Then he starts going down the road of how much is he. First ballot hall of Famer -- now to positive steroid tests and he's -- an all things not. Yeah I don't think that there's a chance and in fact he's going to end up getting voted in by the writers. Who won't vote and guys like Jeff Bagwell who by far deserved to be and Jeff Bagwell. One of the greatest players in the history of the game and even a great defensive first baseman if you even want -- a good base runner to. But just even a hint the sniff of it and now -- with two. Positive test actually no chains like when I think about Manny. I think I always wanted to say hey. You don't know this because it was always he doesn't care he won't talk to the media this and that. And I always want to say you don't know he's one of them probably one of the most Harding were hardest working players out there to hit the way he did I always wanted to say that. Anyway you know what really set me off was not. The positive test the positive tests I can understand he wants to be Manny again he wants to hit forty homers again he wants to drive in 150. Sure. We're really got me though is that he didn't tell the race he didn't tell them. They found out via an email. I mean that's that's like I mean that's your girlfriend breaking up with it through tax if you've been together for. You know a couple of years or something that just that's unacceptable. And that to me. Then the word coward has to come -- then the word idiot loser in all this other stuff you know and and then it's like. I don't wanna call it guy in eighty -- I don't know -- but at the same time. Maybe it is a coward move to not at least tell you team. Being goof ball is one thing Manny being Manny that whole thing is. Acceptable when you're winning and when your winning World Series. You can be -- thing or bad being. And eighty. You can't be -- the standard set it's not my standard it's the writers standard. You test positive or there's a sniff if you are upon. A steroid user. You're not getting in the hall -- because of the air you lived it may be not because of -- play. But because of the rampant use and the blind side baseball turned to the subject so to me. The first test was an -- to question is halting credibility the second positive test is just. Why even have the -- Well right now we're gonna get the opinion of a national baseball writer and editor Bob Harkins NBC baseball editor Bob. Is it just pure stupidity on the part of Manny Ramirez to test positive again. Add to that the big question. You know I don't know that Manny has never been known that the prize while on the -- but. You know it's hard to say and that's and that's what so complicated about all the steroid issues that you don't really know. How long people have been taken them and who'd been taken them and when they start and when they stop -- -- I mean you'd think look at that many numbers he's been. Such a consistent -- over the years you know he'd never at a huge homers he's like fifty or sixty overseas and any you know you -- you would speculate at least I would speculate that. That you know he did -- Epic ended his career to try to hang on the squeeze out a couple of course he didn't he get a couple more. These contracts and that sort of prove himself may be even after. The Red -- sort of this -- him. It's really hard to say. Bob twenty years from now when someone comes up to you or someone brings up Manny Ramirez. What are you gonna say. I'm going to its data eight keywords. One of the greatest hitters -- -- generations. And there were a lot of questions about is how he -- those numbers. Let until we know more maybe we'll know more in twenty years about how everything went down. But I I you at the Hall of Fame caliber player. And you know a carefree spirit. Who both delighted and then angered and that the same time. And you know he's I think is one of the greatest hitters and -- picnic on the right side. Bob where do you put Manny Ramirez's chances at making the Hall of Fame I got them and well on zero. I I think. But in zero. Like how about about 5%. I mean but one thing one thing you have fifteen years. You'll be eligible until five years from now. And then you have another fifteen years. And then you had the better committee after that. So perceptions can change change over time as they have certainly let you know we just as the example -- pilot and it took in fourteen years. It is so perceptions can change over time but the but the problem is. He asked to stand the ballot. The issue EP doesn't and the ballot then that it significantly hurt his chances. Meet personally I think is all saint -- I think he deserves to be in there. But then again I'm act and a. And for giving of these things especially when we don't really know what everybody else does that mean. It everywhere it's taking steroids and it's an even playing. And so they and I think he's still have to put the best players then it's -- we just don't know. I'm I would vote for the best player to go. Well it pains me to stay on the topic of steroids but Barry Bonds the case. To mean not only is it a waste the time but things -- looked in pretty bleak for him even getting any sort of time anyway. Well I'm and we view I think -- without Greg Anderson's testimony I don't see how you can put him in jail. Mean there's simply I just don't see how you can group. That he knew -- he would -- took. Now I think comment and tell you that evidence out there as far as you know what's what there's been books written about it and everything. And it tells you that you act -- it took steroids and I think. I think everybody knows that but the problem is in court of law you have to prove it and I don't think it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. We're talking -- NBC sports baseball editor Bob Harkins. Bob I wrote an article not that long ago around Hall of Fame election time. About how the Hall of Fame itself the actual museum is going to suffer because of not having these players in there what do you think. Absolutely I think that there I think that that you issued her Cooperstown. I mean if you don't have very dark in there you know have Mark McGwire and the other than Roger Clemens -- only. And I mean there's a whole generation of great great players that cannot might not be going in there and you know it it'll be interesting to see what happened but that's -- -- I would think. It's gonna -- the lack credibility for -- I mean and I don't know who you put in a deep that you put in the lesser players just because. You'd think that the best on steroid user but even even then you don't really know the only no mistake in -- not. You know you can look at a guy like Fred McGriff who everyone assistant extra early and it's and I -- those guys need to eat spaghetti and probably won't. -- -- -- -- You know I mean you didn't he didn't take steroids that you don't really know and that -- problem with that. I think it will hurt all the pain in the long run -- -- you and that. Bob last question before I let you go it's about Ken Griffey junior players like that. Couldn't we clash in just about anyone for this steroid thing. Well right. I mean -- yet again there it's always been soon -- -- body type. That that you didn't take steroids into this big guy he got a little little chubby -- in his career you know he can then it's there right. Well you know Ryan Franklin. Got an open drug -- the pitcher for the cardinals and he he doesn't look. Pagan and everything but it certainly it's a really hard hard thing to figure out and that. I just felt with. -- now that Little League sort of get a handle on the same side that's all air it's just it's just that you commence. Rob banks so much for joining us that's that was Bob Harkins NBC sports baseball editor. We don't get a lot of chance to talk about buffalo bison is baseball with the sabres in the bills and everything else going on so. But I'd wanna chat a little bit about opening day first of all you were at the stadium in the press box. What were your impressions of not just not just the game of course but. The experience and how things have changed over their Coke coal field. While I mean it's has been something else and yeah it was -- -- to fill in for -- that in duke while they were on the TV side. Calm myself and Dave Wilson on the radio but. It really seems like a brand new ballpark to me the fact that that the team spent. Their own money the offseason to redo the the field and level at all. It looks like a Major League ballpark and the video board out in center field the new lights and everything I haven't seen the new lights yet in action. But I hear there even brighter than they used to be with only half the balls. And honestly if the play on the field matches how great the ballpark looks were only 340s -- seasons so it's hard to tell so far but it's a -- can. Continue on. The way that the stadium locks -- buys -- fit to be in for -- this year. When you saw a little bit of a tough outing from Dillon -- who set the all time strikeouts record for the team last year at the you know like a 165. He had a little bit of a tough outing but he's not the one that the Mets -- focus on he's not the one that the -- is looking at that Henry Mejia. And he had. An excellent start a six innings I don't know if you run he was. He was great again he made once -- last year I think struck out eight or nine in eight innings. Did you happen to get to see any of that game I didn't get to -- It because I was over at the arena for the sabres demon. McCain actually went thirteen -- solace for Henry didn't actually even get the win offers for his efforts but I think -- just thinking to me Matt. Is Jerry Manuel put him as a reliever. I can fans have known name here as a reliever but he's -- he's starting pitcher right. And now the new regime is sandy Olson and Terry counts wanna see how he does is starter I think they'll be fine April may alexion every five days in June July and August. When you know you've got to go for the pace is that you're not feeling great on your start day if strong 110 pitches. Are you -- your stuff. Third and fourth time to the order. And I think he can do it. There are a lot of guys that they can do it but duel well enough to be successful that's the clash. I think you bring up a great point the way that their handling -- you look at what Ron Washington did with NAFTA nearly four -- reason you think. There's two different theories here about getting one of these fireball is to go up and be a starting pitcher full time. The one theory says let's see how he does in the bullpen first like say Adam Wainwright for the cardinals they put him in the bullpen first and then he ends up. Becoming -- starting pitcher after a year in the -- And then there's the other theory and that seems to be with the Mets are doing is putting your top prospect in AAA. Teach him how to be an actual starting pitcher. And then bring a mop. I suppose it's worked in both ways but wouldn't hear it seems like the right move. To give them -- like you said to get him to learn how to be an actual starting pitcher every five days it's work symbol. Place but it's also not -- and a look at Joba Chamberlain. Who the Yankees bring it to the majors he's a -- no he's a reliever -- the heir apparent to Mariano he's just Ariza reliever -- -- for what it's like Helio. Pick one. Go with it if it doesn't work out okay but you have to at least. Go through it for a full range of time and like you set the -- to doing it the right way with now giving an -- -- a year to do in the minors and let's see. Once this season ends the total body of work and if he's able to continue. And Chamberlain's amount of innings pitch in the minors were really not substantial even. You know and he was a starter in the minors for a little bit but only for -- -- he wasn't there for full seasons. Really get getting the arm in shape but then at the same time there's the Francisco Liriano. Who pitched years in the majors to get ready and then he goes up in his army shot and it's taken them years to get back. All he probably became more mature pitcher now that he's up there because of his time spent in Rochester it's you can find examples. Either way I guess it has to be. You know up to this specific team vinyl from being a pitcher back when I was in college for only you know a little while but I know as a player from that side of it. The number one thing you want is just to know where you stand you wanna know live with -- Joba I feel bad for the guy because Joe would never knew what was coming next. And then they raise these giant expectations form as a starter. He never really knew where he stood with -- team in never knew what his role was though the problem I have with the way he was handled. Think that's what I'm getting at is that all right if you want the guided his starter given time to be a starter don't. Having knee jerk reactions say well it's not working out at the first month or two so. We think he'll be better reliever 'cause he's got a great fastball and can mix and change. Go with -- let's see how it is and it had to be here works on after next year great if it doesn't. All right we'll evaluate it then but don't all the sudden it gets a couple bad starts or you did you struggle in the bullpen in New York. Think all right he has to be -- castigate. And I -- a little concern over Neftali Feliz because. When your reliever when you pitch one inning you come out and you blow people away and you throw 97 every single pitch and then you go ice the arm after eighteen pitches. If you watched Justin Verlander pitch or CC sabathia pitched these guys. They can throw 97. I've seen sabathia crank it up to 9798. Verlander you've seen him crank it up to triple digits but if you see him in the fifth inning. He's thrown two seamer at 9293. And then when he's in a spot when he's got the bases loaded he's got two -- he needs a strike out. Then he brings out the 9798. -- that Timmy is the skill the starter to know how to hold yourself back and then goal I mean we saw strasburg last year. He blows out his arm now it was probably something that was building up he ends up blowing out his arm. And he was doing the same things trying to throw a 103 every single pitch. -- ruling affects the license here and -- Dillon gee who sets the team's all time modern era singles patients at all time single season. Strike out record he's not a strikeout pitcher. He had shoulder problems he cranks it up -- high eighties loan ninety's when he's lucky. And yet he gets a 160 by -- that's why because Dillon Jean knows how to work the -- He knows what pitchers to throw and he knows how to picked corners and that's what. Like you're saying if if you have a catcher pudge Rodriguez I think is the best modern catcher to know hot Paula game. He knows he knows what -- to call in the right time and he's done it. Oprah's career whether it was in Texas or Florida are now in Washington with those young guys. He knows how to get the most out of his picture sure not facade has done well in new York and it got you can probably draw other examples that -- but. To -- punch is the guy. Yeah I -- wrinkled nose to bring a posada a little bit because posada is the same guy that it. He's had plenty of different star pitchers not wanna throated pro sodomy even dating back to David Cone and Randy Johnson was here. I don't think anybody wanted to pitch to posada in half and that's because he doesn't like the play very well either Yvonne Rodriguez. I think his game is still in the throwing game I'm not gonna go against them as far as calling -- game I'm not gonna tell him how to call -- game I don't know if he's the best I think the best in the game oddly enough is Jose Molina. It's funny when you see. Pitchers CRA's Brenden -- is a great example. When morrow was with John -- last year's DR ray was in the -- he goes to pitching to Jose Molina and about a similar mind games -- -- drops the -- I think -- Anybody with the last name only and knows how to call -- game. But back to your initial point. Pick you right you have to know how to pitch there's commodity old cliche pitcher vs thrower I'm sure right now at this point his career he is a thrower. He goes out there tries to throw through a wall at -- get every pitching cliche in there. And he's got to learn how to work both sides of the -- Do the off speed pitches all that perfect but see him now buys its fans see him now could you won't see him for very long. Yen in the mets' rotation is. Not very good right now I mean and in the terms of getting quality starts -- stars Mike Pelfrey. First he starts has not been yet it's not doesn't not to say he's not going to pitch well this year but. They do have big questions and you would think it's only a matter time before at least. McKie gets a look and we've seen with fisons last year to halt some guys -- look and then come back I. Would prefer them to send up somebody like Fossum or Bonser if so if it gets ugly send up one of the veteran guys and let them get knocked around up there. The last thing I -- seized me here -- get called up too quickly because the Mets stink that's the last thing I wanna see I wanna see him. Next year I wanna see a whole season the -- in the next year he's opening day starter maybe even I'm sure hope you want Santana will be. But you know I mean he gets a full spring training and as a starter with the Mets and is ready to go on day one I say don't panic. Bring up Boof -- if you have to and let him allowed six runs a game I'd rather see that if you're out of playoff race than waste is starting pitcher. While to me is the question out. There's Henry mean he has shown he just is far superior to. That they hitters can mean if you wanna bring a Gallic Stephen strasburg to meet there was nothing left for him to accomplish in the minors in terms of fighting stopped because the guys. Just weren't up to the competition at some point. Yet to face the live bullets and there's no better way to do it. If you if you proven that your. Like yours better than the other guys and I guess to me that's the biggest thing is -- me here shows that. Big other guys candle candle -- whatever cliche you want that then I think he needs to get called up but if if he doesn't that I I completely agree with you that active -- Casey Fossum up. You know there -- gonna be guys throughout the season -- -- gonna be signed it always happens 11 or two players throughout the year will be signed to the relief was released from somebody else. And the buffalo for a couple games sent a mop. And then I've always been a 100% in favor of just giving guys. Adequate amount of time and being patient. Well anyway for pat -- Karl I met you collar and I thank you for joining us here on WG yards baseball podcast and a big thanks for NBC baseball editor Bob Harkins for joining us as well.
