Do we ask the other the other guys here -- the show's been on. Three and a half years and I'd like to think some impact. Has been felt here on the staff. Matthew as a Willie McGee Carty didn't have. Before the hobby came to him in need of a producer. That makes me the second biggest crop up. And and the funniest guy on the show by -- Okay well I'm I'm excited I've been up for three hours and that actually is not this time because of crying kids. It's because today at the harsh don't matter I'm headed back out the set up with my friend Bob -- set up but at a table or two at. The latest card show their. The -- don't show that -- showing puts on has become. V regular. Card show in Western New York anybody. In now probably at least your mid thirties can remember time if you were collector at least when you were younger. That card shows were just all over the place flea markets and all the time. In the late eighties and early nineties there were events and lots of people big crowds and it was a big deal. And -- -- as I think of it this show is a big deal is a big deal to me. The the health of the hobby has been a big topic among collectors the biggest. In the last week since the CBS news report on collecting. Really put collecting down. And it -- I thought it was only a little bit even handed but I'm probably biased. So I wanna take a little bit of time today to. Not just defend the hobby while also being honest about it. At an L do all make points and -- I make frequently. Some of them anyway. So -- just defend it but. Also try to be. Completely real about just like where where it is that I I think I think a lot of ways collecting is more interest thing. Then it was twenty years ago it's not as popular. That was really the the fundamental point of that. Peace to me was that it's not as popular but. Look huge money is spent all the time constantly. On collectibles and they're not all just be Ruth game used bats mean lots lots of stuff. -- cards from the sixties and seventies. Sell for thousands of dollars and sometimes the eighties to. If you if you happen to have a card like. 1986. Football. Ron Amadon Jerry Rice in perfect condition. The card is worth thousands each of them. And relief that aspect of of collecting and all of the hobby was to simply not. Addressed great -- cards in the premium they sell for. No it's it's not it's not that. Teenagers are collecting like we all were as teenagers we were Ryder Blake stood corner stores that's not the world. And frankly I didn't need CBS news to tell. -- -- tell me or probably anybody with a brain that that is the way it is now I mean anybody -- figured that. But there is a the collecting is still very. Popular thing and a very as the -- says lucrative thing. If from if you look in the right places and I'm just not sure they did I wondered watching it if they just wanted to put it down but. That I thought that reminds me of callers who saved you know is a hockey game I'm watching fixed and I figured I was just too too far in there are issues. Honesty and credibility. Are probably as big an issue in the hobby as ever. The Internet is great. For. Opportunity. Whereas in 1990. Roll the buying and selling that was done there was no opportunity to buy certain cards big cards vintage high grade whatever. And now the wrist. I messed this -- question about this kind of thing a lot. Does it matter if you're in buffalo or you're in Philadelphia -- -- in Dallas. Mean are are the buffalo guys gonna sell for more here in the Philadelphia guys for more there and and all that it's very logical. I think probably for a long time that was the case that if you wanted to. If you worry interest in in buying and selling maybe not even as a dealer which is collector you might. You know be out of business trip to Pittsburgh. And think well I can take my Pittsburgh cards there insult -- and by buffalo cards really cheap and come back. But now that there's just no need for that because the Internet basically all those cities are all in one place all the time. And if I want a Pittsburg cards just as easy for me to get one if not easier that it is buffalo because of the day. So there are some things about it that. Worth talking about but. And I do like the overall message Armenia teenagers like to play video games. That's this you're CBS news it be something I don't know. 8030550. Is the number I would love and he calls on that report people. Our collectors who might have taken it personally or negatively. Or not maybe I have it wrong as you see it. Or just people who have an opinion about the hobby maybe from the show or friends or whatever. 8030550. The number over the to talk to you about it. Here is rob shelling -- mentioned rob show with the -- or manor is on today and tomorrow two days this time Robertson. Big undertaking here. Yes it's been a little bit different but you've got that -- playable they've so I think he's come out either they are all Yukio. These dispute which for. Okay rob wrote it down for us why. Why today vs tomorrow or vice Versa I just want to should listeners expect if they come. Well. Either today initial Q at no extra. Right rather than regular mission -- -- in the original priest in being. Who are a lot of -- and see so they alone. Yet opponent so we would hope. People come in to check it's like being out there are six that are here. -- where we hear out. -- -- are slipping and it. -- -- Week leading up -- scorer assistant point. -- Cheerleaders. And. Is -- to the we all fair game that was here and tell. We also you know. Late Smith. Earlier Sunday first -- here Ers. Stanley Cup. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- There's a lot of very dealers here it's in the different product -- rule will hurt new parents. Periods collective will -- spout. Anything you'd think. And cables to get merchandise to cruise one little. I would alert is he showed in Western New York it runs spring and fall soon. Nobody should come final. Iran about real quick and I've asked you -- -- before and in promoting you've done that and again here and I can also I think by now is the show goes on today to show. Tell listeners more about it. But done about it just a question or 21 and some of your expertise. And I know that if collectors know you. They can go out to the harsh -- and they will see your set up a lot of programs and old buffalo. Memorabilia and just let me ask your finger to about and about the publications about programs what what's hot. We'll kind of things do you have and what are some general. You know if things to know or tips maybe for people who might have a lot of those things certainly get a lot of calls about. Programs from people that got him in the erratic and and whatnot. And that's that's kind of your area just tell us tell us more please. Now -- at first it is they'll ever throw any technical. Call you Ian W call somebody on the I'll bit the first thing you never know what something can be worked -- you'd be surprised some of that earlier -- earlier shapers. Items that I. Specializes in. Indy period really -- came across the first year. Buffalo Bills. Photo -- It's forty pictured in milk to. Even ticket holder the first year. And it's -- 456 per dollar write them. But it can be. Lot of pole and those lyrics -- -- people's -- term in the -- people unfortunately they. Costs without thinking that they -- now we're so much but buffalo later my specialty you know buffalo. -- born in Greece. It's sort of. Well my interest lies. In -- and he looks for error and seeing his old it is Buffalo's sports skiing orient. And condition is is key in programs just as it is in cards. Yes unfortunately parents. American you know programs -- exposed you know Paper based product. Lot of it doesn't share well over the years and moisture and so on and it's that things so conditions certainly is everything. Many here went the -- and yet those early. Programs receivers being in Atlanta on the floor with the peanuts and popcorn. And I'm here was so glad to -- tight to well. Into that -- to that kind of thing rob I always say if that were true. None of this would be worth anything because it's absolutely correct that we'd all have it wouldn't want to wouldn't want it. -- -- A lot of the newer cards that you -- Or a lot less than the older stuff just -- that. Check more -- -- better initial and it's been better preserved. And -- the values much different. Okay you said done your on the website like I think that -- an email you send out that there's a discount if people have the email or anything like that. The public that the prices in the hours pleas for this weekend. I'm nine for pretty much either day. You are in addition adult admission it's only three gallery in -- get emails your honor you -- -- -- dollar option and a low. And children sixteen and under are free when he beat -- well here it the air and now we're expecting a large growth. Good I I am hoping for 12 and I will see you out there and about. I guess about 930 thank you rob. You're welcome that's -- -- the arsenal manner show gets underway at nine is he said. And that is also on from nine to -- tomorrow. A couple of tips that are not. You know etched in stone as they say these are not guarantees. But. From my relatively limited experience collect at not collecting by setting up at the show isn't going to them. It seems that there are pretty good crowds early. Really both days may be but especially today when it starts that. That the collector type is usually out there right at the beginning the show's. To just see if there aren't you know new dealers people who are really dealers to setting up and trying to load whatever it is. So. You know crowd seemed to be heavier early. Then there's also the thinking that. At the end of the show or at the end of the weekend. People. Dealers I mean may just be in the mood to celebrate their prices down. You know just to win the weekend or just -- not have to take as much stuff back whatever the case may be in it seems like you do see a trickle of people the end of a show. Looking for that but sometimes dealers are out the door before. Before the show lens if that if it gets released slow so you know take that as a general rule and maybe -- out there one days or the other let's go to the phones here Scott on WGR Scott. More Mike radio -- OK. Here's the here's my take on the CBS news report which you mention that the out of the shell and my opinion I think it's kind of generational part of us think and what I mean by that is when I was on a verdict by myself. When early young kids are in making. Might get 1 o'clock because he saw the value of the cargo when he was a kid and water need to have that. Into that ball back god and -- a lot of those cards and eat eat eat even -- are not as valuable it is. For when. -- from when he was a child in the sixties and fifties and sixties. I think there's a lot of people that are shying away from the hobby itself. And I and I think that's where our people our age. Kind of shy away from it is that they're picture either kids away from that. And that's my opinion on it and I think it's something where. We need to try to get the -- it. Well I guess that's right I mean to think that. It should -- have been something that was like to set you up for life for anything. Of a cushion to fall back on as you put it you know really. The the thinking was flawed all along and the essence of collecting is probably like I think this might be right is really not. For that purpose you know it's a hobby it's mostly fun. -- But it does work where you're right is it does explain. Where why those crowds were like that forty years ago me a lot of those people were not. Purist sort of speak they were there thinking they were going to get rich and in the in the short term they probably were getting rich I've heard some amazing stories. I mean it's just people hitting hitting the jackpot. Flipping cards in no time twenty years ago by. Yeah yeah now we're looking for people who were just going to be into it and to cultivate that is is a challenge. You know I hear well out there are human about it. Okay thank -- Scott. That it brings the question up like how many people should really be expected. Two. To take this hobby up. It's probably baseball fans. Mostly it's prop because that sort of goes hand in hand with baseball it's got a long history of baseball cards -- the biggest on the hobby you mean. They go back along the farthest. It's really a baseball thing at its core. And so you have you have that you have you'd want it you'd think it's people who. Whose parents were into it or was fathers were into it to stereotype I guess may be someone -- exposed to collecting at a young enough page. But -- who -- is it. Is it Matthew we are today and gave -- talk about this before. He left the -- you came on just you know guys between 45 and thirty guessing. Who run love sports and really know it means of like the two most knowledgeable guys young guys year term. Dan and and Matthew but. Collecting was really not for them this is really the -- point it was I mean you're right here I know but. Part of it and like I can your day and saying this back back then. That. It was a big let down that the cards were not. Not that they had to make you rich. But just that there wasn't some growth you could track and then have a little bit to work with and then play -- out of it and that's probably a lot of what the -- pointless. Yeah I think so I thought they do there is all right I think you're right -- -- -- right I I think it at this point now the stuff that I have from then I was always thinking. While I really love this stuff but I love the players and in reading about them on the cards and collecting my dad but there was only some sort of expectation right that this would be worth something -- it is disappointing to have box after box my house that. -- were actually nothing. Yeah in distant even have them there. Is frustrating. Because they're taking up space and you still don't really wanna throw them out. You know or just give them away because. It is a hobby where people make money but so yeah it's like depressing almost. And you're not gonna wanna go out and take a hobby up and add more things without some kind you know it's just to start you off on the wrong foot that. Ever once in awhile I pulled -- out and it looks Rome and I think. Why isn't Barry Bonds is second year cart worth something -- or life but. But it's you know I still have some fun and every once in awhile -- applaud the cards and I'll talk to my girlfriend about. How I got the -- the remembered you know certain stories -- attempt out rookie. When I sat in for you the one week Derek talked about my Tim -- for -- I spent. Four hours at a show looking for the right team count rookie to those very excited -- excel. I still have that that the -- count for key is worth nothing but I have the story published spent. -- it was like. Thirty dollars and it wasn't much it wasn't it was an autograph that teaches. I was just look at for kind of the right one you know I'd like that the picture -- -- -- Don't worry you know if you break it was about ten years younger and exactly the same kind of person I am I'm not collecting cards. The the key for me was that late seventies are actually. Quickly my dead I've mentioned this my dad bought a collection from someone he knew. When I was about twelve years -- -- 1983. It was cards from 737475. And like to me that just. -- glued me down to like I was just. I was isn't there I'd already been a collector but. My my stuff really didn't hold up as well late seventies early eighties I could've slipped away to. And I did for a long time actually I don't talk about this like -- I've been collecting politely took him. But twenty year break my fifteen year break myself. But. Early seventies like the stuff and I was constantly in the magazines checking prices. I mean those cards are in terrible shape because what I would do is rake them in my binders by how much they were worth. And every time a new Beckett came out I would rearrange them. And you know I guess the numbers were a little bit so I just to me that was the -- of it was moving them around and even though I was thinking. Protect them in the binders I was actually rooting them by doing it in the commons from those years are in fine shape but the stars or not. Which is troops -- collections. 8030550. If you saw that CBS news thing on collecting it whether you're a collector or not. But we know what you thought. What is Jamie moyers rookie card worth and maybe a word I'm like how the heck is he still in baseball but he is 1890 -- -- ought. Yes Jamie Moyer and all the Hossa red born are on the same card is one guy on each side of those. Almost. I'm Mike show this is the hobby on WGR. Welcome back to the hobby I might show big car show this weekend at the horse don't -- to fuel. Go to Western New York or WNY sports card expo dot com. For details rob Schilling who -- the show on join me a few minutes ago. And I'll be heading out there when I'm done here. But that will put me behind. Because that thing starts at nine and I will that be there by nine but that's fine so one -- for me. If two it'll be it's gonna get out there in the set up. I AM this is this is big for me. It's possible that three or four you might react to this. I am taking some helmets to sell. Yes the oft mentioned Super Bowl MVP mini helmets and I'll tell you why. I had sort of a change of attitude I achievement -- a little bit on this collection just last week. When here I -- with this Super Bowl. MVP. Autographed mini helmet collection from December 2010. To about last fall. I ended up with. I don't know 25 to thirty album I bought a lot of them and it happened pretty fast and I was going great I love them. I shouldn't say past and it's a really do like having these things. But the problem. That I ran into was. Twofold. And some of the new guys Tom Brady Peyton Manning Eli Manning who has since won another Super Bowl MVP. Aaron Rodgers. Bomb like these guys. They're not my cup -- as a collector I I almost completely out of touch with with new products and anything going -- with the new guys now in collecting. It's not what I by. So Super Bowl MVPs for me was Bradshaw install -- star Montana. And not Brady and Manning. But. Of course there are there in the club. So I have this dilemma where I needed by Brady and Manning and they are super expensive. It's not really because there are better or were better than. Montana or brash it's that. They just don't need the card shows they have very lucrative. Endorsement deals with certain company's most of the new guys. And they're not selling sort of sign their name for less than like two or 300 dollars so then. Are you gonna spend two or 300 dollars or more so that the dealer can make a profit. On some thing you know about the size of handball while the attempted and to get the big -- and earlier to five or six otter box. And then it's a -- go wait a minute -- want this. Didn't wanna Tom Brady autograph -- I don't care about them. He's now what I'm going for. The breaking point for me was Hines Ward. Today or tomorrow in Virginia. Hines Ward is signing at a card show it's a big one in Chantilly in my friends -- bases loaded go to Chantilly for the show and I go through them. And like OK here's Hines Ward how much -- a 190 dollars. With the mini helmet and a Super Bowl MVP inscription. Not even go to percent sure he would do. -- every -- -- -- Hines Ward signed peace doesn't have the inscription. So anyway a 190 dollars for Hines Ward. That was it. So I'm not gonna sell a ball but I'm cutting my collection off at 25. Because it's those guys that I care about it's the guys from my childhood. Or before. First 45 Super Bowl MVPs that's it and everyone I have to for one as the couldn't find the box. That is beyond. Its general 26 mark written. And Don I'm taking to this to the show will have for sale. Because. I just I'm just gonna change the direction and that -- that -- wrong -- them. But Tom that's what I'm thinking there's a breeze and Troy Aikman Ron Amadon those guys have mall there at the show today trying to promote that trying to give you a little quick story about. What I decided to do and why decided to do it the old guys are -- wanna -- Here's Charles on WGR Charles. Unlike regular. I the question about the specific card that I bought recently. Probably a risk of brewery -- heritage. But above 800 dollars. In within Andrew Luck. Hard. It's an error card. A short 35 of and it's just -- whistle at you date for 2002. World a better pipa at the fortunate what should it through the car. I -- and it while looking at it. Lecture make it rated I think that the show. Salary that was taken to the show -- tell me. Well I think -- sure to get some advice what to do it I'm worried about people expect -- get whether -- self interest that's well supposed to. Yeah do you think you if you put it on eBay right now you'd get 2000 dollars. Yeah I would -- but you'd have to. Just a matter of what you're what you're doing you know what your preferences that's that's hard for me to answer for you but -- in in general for me I. I can be sent a medal but I am not sentimental about many things I've collected and if I can ever ever ever got to a point where I can double my money I'll do it. -- like Bulldog and I bought this Stephen Strasburg card a couple of years ago. Because we were just constantly hearing about them and it's in the a fun thing to do together. And we spent like 380 box and the card soon thereafter started selling for 700 I'm like what's -- But because we did it together and it was kind of you know fun thing to have and he was just really still starting out. We didn't do that and now we probably couldn't really get her money back although that may change. So. To get a surrogate card like that -- I don't I don't like greeting. Cards that are -- such Josh is such a short for a run for because really you don't it's just redundant. Like what we're -- does is is separate. 1979. Ozzie Smith. -- grating does is is separate all the different Ozzie Smith rookie cards by condition so it's almost like you have. You know is if they were number Accuray Andrew Luck Curtis. If you evident in PSA nine or something but since your priorities numbered. I I don't know unless it's perfect and most of what you see online of that card are you know the corners are offered considering is off rather whatever. Then you know that there's an argument for doing it by -- in general with new stuff that's number I'd I'd choose not to. It's what let what you about departure wife and year old son. You know I'm giving him if you -- -- my card and you elect to look at them at such. But now they have taken into the cart shall I don't want -- to sell cards but can you create -- that the show. Sometimes. I mean most the guys on the other side of the table -- not gonna make a bad deal for them. So it's not like you're trading with your friends. But you know if there's something they want and I suppose that could happen even if that somebody seven years old. Then -- deals get made the only people -- looking to buy. Like if you took during Andrew Luck cart I don't know enough about it so I can't -- speak specifically but if it is what you say it is and I presume it is if you took it around at this show you probably get offers on it. But you know and that that might be that might be good you can walk out of there with cash if you do indeed -- -- and and that's a good thing but if it does it work talk about a car that sells for 2000 on eBay somebody that buys you buys it from you at a show oh. Is probably -- thinking about keeping it like a collector would there are more likely thinking about flipping it and that's is that is why they probably wouldn't pay you as much. Just -- in generalities here's you know making some assumptions. Are. All right you're welcome. None of that stuff -- -- has to be true. Anyway. Jamie Moyer. At 49 years old. Is making is back in the major leagues with the Rockies. His rookie card is from cards are from 1987. Where -- you 1987. And a lot of nineteen of them. One listing on eBay 1987. -- -- more cards. Just sold for twenty dollars. I mean he's not. Cynical facts or anything the -- of his air even but he's pitched a long time is kind of a novelty. It has been pretty good. Nineteen rookie cards for forty box. -- look that one up for I looked up of getting Milken to wanna give you him. Before I'm done here's Greg on WGR Greg. Mark Mike I sort of make your -- sorts super all the comments that you set your clock being. I have read in the same issue I wanted to now I wanted to start branching out I collected the -- -- -- From the turn out so Ali. Marino -- -- black alleged. And I certify that some other. Part of names like Kerry O'Brien -- he -- the -- but that it just started to get a little aggravating. And I actually just get picked on as you know I particularly -- so I understand and there's -- I agree resell value I'm knows that that's something else watched it and. Is that right. That's that's that's been your observation. Yeah that's in my observation. And eight appoint to the guy you're the under -- would shall act out and RB I completely agree with you. Yeah and he's not gonna get a lot -- all that you reject but perhaps I need very it's not you know to double or triple -- -- not something that -- -- That that's an operator are you one bit and you want it -- certain things that iPod years ago that. I probably will respond -- -- -- you know they mean a lot to me so I would you know I took the loss. -- idea good well on you know the the argument that you Greg for holding onto it is. That you think Andrew Luck will be awesome. And of course right the price has to go up once he's awesome. Not necessarily. You know if these Peyton Manning over time that's going to happen. But I've made this point about Sidney Crosby alive and -- is very close to Sidney Crosby in this way. There was so much hype. And the expectations were so high. That. Take Crosby. He came into the league with all of that. And just like you know the next Gretzky. And in short order he won a Hart trophy as Stanley Cup and a gold medal. And the prices related move. They didn't move very much. Because it was sort of expected now -- knocked on those things. It he became shall bear -- way. Then the prices fall off the map of course and you're selling those cars for ten box maybe. But really what it is he's got to do that to keep up with the hype and the expectations. And that's I think -- drew buckets. If he's in his rookie and he does -- -- -- wounded people are gonna be even more excited about a man that price will probably spike. -- -- He's gonna have to do that. And he's going to have to in no time at all look like he deserved. All of that that all of that -- so that some. That's a particular point on him but yeah if I can double my money on something in pretty much in any thing I will I will take money. 8030550. I might show this is the hobby on WGR. Welcome back to the hobby I might show. Matthew collar is our producer Matthew just got a call from someone who said. Is this card show worth my while you usually only go to card shows like and spend 2000 dollars. Well. You can easily spend spend 2000 dollars at the show if it's like the other -- -- shows but it is not. The Toronto show it is not the national it is not. You know that either. I don't have a lot of experience -- there's a bit into the heart Stonewall on buffalo wide and 45 times going it is today. This be my second one is a seller to Batavia did Rochester once or twice. Into the national. You know it's not but it's not a knock it's just. It's it's local. So if you're trying to pick up a means Lou Gehrig dowdy card you know you might not have an easy time today. But if you are in the market for any thing. Local you know all I mean bills and sabres. Cards yes jerseys -- seats. You know. Videotapes. And it's trinkets. Program's all that stuff is all over the show. You can also -- 2001 dollar cards. Yeah you can buy everything in my in my truck. For that probably. Probably yeah I think I think that's about it's about what I've got so one. Well let's talk whoever you are come on out stuck by me and just bring your money and I will. I will do what I can do for you you might even spent at all and I might have the day off. And everything will be fair and I'm I'm kidding I'm really not because like to think that. I'm fair with what I -- openings for. Everything's negotiable you know. Like a car dealership if you don't pay sticker. Announced that either Mike. So anyway. Tough loss for the sabres. Will be a lot of Saber stock -- -- station today the game tonight in Toronto. Ends. I don't know. And mall right like that you could said -- yesterday and second with every one of these games. They've made it turns out they may have to -- all the ones they have laughed. To make it. More likely you know they might need to win three out of four and that's certainly possible. I wasn't down on -- too good team they played as Ryan Miller says there were down at their best. Scoring chances they were just not quite as quick on if you think about the last. Three weeks or so they've been a much better team on the road. That they've been here the Minnesota game wasn't that slick last night's game. Montreal they want to read -- -- those games were just a notch -- Washington and the Rangers. And Tampa and some of the road games. And may that continue tonight. At getting Balkan of the young penguins. Talked about Crosby a little bit in a comparison with Andrew Luck caller had a big Andrew Luck card. Malkin has a Conn smythe he's going to win the Art Ross trophy this year many venture that is in his second one. Not sure but. He is great to. His 48 goal last night just made it look so easy to barreling through the -- the Gates's own rebound was not into it. A good the best Malkin rookie card of course would be the cup 200607. Hockey. You know hundreds of dollars there. SP authentic. Or the SP authentic. Night patched in 99 promote 607. You might be looking at about 200. For a for Malkin. And I don't know is that is that bad like the guy is. In Crosby's shadow a little bit. We'll see what happens to the Pittsburg penguins. I don't know who's got a better team. In the Pittsburgh Penguins and if if they go to the finals and win. That would be two cups in four years three trips to the finals in five. And they're both still so young. And you know not that you know certainly wanna consider this but Malkin does not have that the concussion issue. Yet as far as we know that that Crosby has so he seems like you know little bit more durable as an investment to speak. So anyway. That's them those are some numbers on Malkin that's he's a big player but he could be bigger ethic in in terms -- prices. One more guy for you before at a time of giving you Jamie Moyer giving -- that getting -- -- one more M Thurman Munson. I went looking doing a little shopping earlier this week did and a buy anything but. Was thinking about the famous and wonderful 1971. Tops Thurman Munson card card number five. His second year great action shot is that iconic card. And it's known for being very very expensive in high grade. Interestingly it really isn't expensive in even a PSA seven. Which you get -- eight territory that is big money on Munson but the seven is pretty reasonable and that means I think that that should mean that. If if York collector that year that player. You know. Famous cards that you want that car is seven. It's pretty tough with the black borders there's chipping in the 71 side is known to be tough for that it makes sense. But Tom months and isn't that bad in seven in those cards are out there which is relief. There was point 21 in the same that's why is that an expensive because the you know they fly around but the eight that's you know what you're talking about. I guess a lot of money. For for Thurman -- so why am the seven I think is the play if you -- greeted at night I generally on -- like to buy graded even though occasionally with raw. You can you can really win big. I usually only even search for -- -- buying online. Okay I hope to see all of the -- the thank you Matthew. Sabres at least tonight at seven enjoy that'll be here with month with Bulldog excuse me. On Monday to talk about the sabres and more I guess. -- -- Thanks for listening to the hobby on WGR.